Healers interview from 2003 Tour

Johnny Marr was interviewed close to the end of The Healers tour on 23 May 2003 by a young journalist and music lover named Pablo in Montreal, Canada. Johnny talks about how he became the singer in The Healers, his collaborations with Morrissey, Matt Johnson and Bernard Sumner, corporate media, mainstream music, Noel Gallagher, his favourite guitars and how it feels to be back in a band. Oh, and Johnny eats an apple.

The tour’s going alright?
Yeah, the tour going well, yeah. This is the 65th or 66th show now, and we got about another 3 shows and then we go back. My mind’s kinda on getting home now really, except for when I’m on stage. But, when we’re hanging around now, I’m thinking about getting back and doing new music now.
Yeah? So anyway with The Healers, this is your vocal debut. What pushed you to actually finally full-front the band, sing and now record this record Boomslang?
Well, I was going to make the record because I started to write the songs, and the songs were started to sound pretty good. So, I did these demos and I had the vocal and the lyrics and everything. And I didn’t want to leave them on the shelf, you know. But I wasn’t really desperate to work with a band. I didn’t miss being in a band, I didn’t miss being in a gang. But I needed a band to record these songs. And then just at that time, I met Zak the drummer in an elevator in New York. I didn’t know he was Zak Starkey. I didn’t even know he was a musician. We just started a conversation and then we went and had a cup of tea. And we found out we had things in common.

So then Zak and I started to jam together when we got back to the UK. And then I’d be writing more songs and I was singing them. And my idea was that we’d find a bass player and that I would make this record, but with a different singer. And because I was not expecting to be singing on the record, when I wrote the lyrics and sang the vocals on the demos, I was really free about it because I didn’t thing anyone was gonna hear it. But then I did a lot of detective work, and I found a couple of singers in Manchester who had really good voices and looked the part, and everything. And then when I played it to Zak and Alonza, they said that I was wrong, that I should leave my vocals on it, that I should be the singer. And I trust them. And then people around the band heard it and said, man this sounds really good. So then I listened to it like I would anyone else I was working with, whether it be Liam Gallagher or Beck or whatever, I pretended that it wasn’t me. And I listened to it and I thought well, the singing sounds a bit trippy and I like it. So I just became the singer then.
So what do you get off The Healers as a band that you didn’t get with your previous groups that you have collaborated with?
I’ve always got satisfaction from the bands that I’ve been with. So, I don’t think I’m getting anything thing that I didn’t get, because I’ve always been pretty happy with what I’ve been doing. Towards the end of the last band I was in Electronic, I was making records with Bernard Sumner, whose really talented obviously, whose now reformed New Order. But we were making records in the control room, in the studio with the computer and using a lot of technology with a lot of loops and all that. And we made three albums like that. When we got to the last album, I wanted to stand in a room with the same faces everyday, like a band, and play and develop like a band. So, that was one of the things I get from this band that I didn’t get from Electronic, that sense of going on a journey together as a band with a bass player, and a drummer and being able to be able to jam basically, just to be able to improvise, you know. And that’s what I get out of this band, improvisation and the sense that we’re all going on a journey. And it’s also, just something really simple, by playing with an absolutely incredible rhythm section, that really lights a fire under your ass and makes you a better guitar player.
Cool. So how did the sessions for this record go? I don’t know about like Electronic, but I know for The Smiths, like, Morrissey strictly wrote the lyrics. You wrote the lyrics for all this record. So as far as musically and lyrically, what was the main drive of inspiration that was fulfilled, that was around you and making the record?
Well, people listen to the records, they might think the lyrics are a little obscure, or vague. But I wanted to make sure that the lyrics went with the music, because in the past, whether it was with Morrissey or Matt Johnson of The The or Bernard Sumner, I’ve done like instrumental backing tracks. And then singers come along put their thing on the top, and it sends it off into a different direction, and that’s been really interesting for me. It was great, obviously Morrissey did some really good stuff. But this time out, I wanted the feeling of the words to go with the feeling of the music. And I didn’t want it to kinda, I didn’t want for the singer to be really in your face. I kinda had enough of that. So I purposely kept rewriting the words so that they just kinda like, just kinda went flattened them down and dumbed them and dumbed them down, without loosing the meaning.

Generally the meaning in the record is generally that of feeling of protecting your own inner freedom, which can sound a little bit pretentious, but was still very, very important to me. Because I feel like everyday can be, like, we surrender to all these corporate messages that say that, you know, you’re a male between 18-25 or between 30-40, and therefore you know, you must watch these television programs, and you must think this way, and you must be right, so therefore you know, you look a certain way, you must be straight, or you know, if you’re gay, you gotta like, you almost have to listen to Judy Garland and show tunes, and you can’t like rock ‘n’ roll. Or if you’re a woman, then you must obviously have to be skinny and…whatever it is, you know, all theses sorta labels that really is a struggle to avoid. So the last few years I’ve been fighting to preserve my own identity and that’s what most of the album is about… That’s what the album is about. First being able to identify who you are. And then trying to work out that you’re ok with it. And then trying to protect it from like people who are trying to take it from you. And I’m assuming that my audience feel the same way as me, cause I think that’s really important, to not under estimate the audience. I think that people who are into me, are like me.
Does this maybe justify why you’ve be getting into the blues a lot lately, like I’ve read around, that you’re really digging blues artists by now?
Well, what got me into the blues really was, frankly that, it sounded like the most genuinely badass, trippy, sophisticated, dark shit that I’d heard for a long time. And compared to, l like a lot of electronic music, not sorta house music, but these guys Pluramon from Germany and Boards of Canada from the UK, and sorta atmospheric, sorta cerebral, kinda put you into the space kinda electronic music, kinda bit twisted, Aphex Twin, obviously. Aside from those people I’ve mentioned, music was all sounding like it was missing some fire and some sex to me, sounded very straight or too intellectual. And that’s what really attracted me to John Lee Hooker or Magic Sam. Obviously, these kinda modern sorta-Chicago, airbrushed, Budweiser blues are not so interesting to me. But if you give me a Lightnin’ Hopkins or Mississippi Fred McDowell, and you know, you’ve got your mind in the right head space, it’s howling, haunting, bad ass…
Or Otis Rush?
Otis Rush is ok, yeah. Some real bad ass, dark stuff. I don’t hear that in hip hop, and I don’t hear it so called punk. There’s no pose to it. I got a bit tired of everybody, all these British bands and American bands, kinda having the right record collections and posing around, and this just sounds like some wicked guy. So I’ve just found it to be sexy, really.
That brings me to my next question… As far as a fan, before anything, I’m a fan of music before any of this journalist stuff. Music’s filled the void in my life. Some people get filled by religion but I consider music my own religion. What are your views about the creative state right now? Cause I know in the underground, there’s always stuff going on, but as far as mainstream it seemed to me to be a little more sincere than it is now.
I think it’s really easy to take a kinda cultural picture of a certain point in time in the past, and really, and to overrate it. I’m just kinda playing devil’s advocate a little bit, but right now I agree with you that the mainstream is pretty corny. But I think what it is nowadays you have to almost just know where to look. And there’s so many magazines and so many crappy tv programs, and so many records put out by really mediocre corporate artists, that I think you have to develop a filter, like if you go to a news stand or news agent, whatever they’re called over here, magazine store, and you’re just bombarded with all these images. You almost have to go – don’t need, don’t need, don’t need, don’t need…that’s what I’m looking for. And you just kinda put a filter on. And that’s what I’ve tended to do with music. You just have to kinda ignore the rubbish.

But, right now I can say to you, mainstream, I could say well, PJ Harvey, Radiohead, Air, Godspeed You Black Empire, Boards of Canada, Aphex Twin, The Kills, obviously The White Stripes, Buz, sometimes the Vines, I guess, when they’re not pretending to be something they’re not. Right there, I can name ten bands. Now if I really put my mind to it, I could probably name another five, or ten. So things can’t be that bad. Similarly, it’s easy to look back to the 70′s or the 80′s or whatever, say when The Smiths were around, thinking it was a better time. But for every Smiths and New Order and Depreche Mode, there was five Flock of Seagulls, then Jericho, Men Without Hats, Men At Work, all this really cheesy, big haired 80′s music. And we tend to forget that, that the mainstream is the mainstream for a reason. One thing that is better about these days is that the internet is around. So, for me, the internet is like a million fanzines, and I think that’s a good thing. There’s obviously there’s a price to pay for it, but it’s a good thing.

So, I agree everything seems very corporate and it’s hard to find really great stuff on your doorstep but you just have to look a little bit further. And I think there will always be interesting people out there who can see through this sorta bullshit, I think. It amuses me that the corporate world will spend millions and millions on, first, working out the demographic they want to make a movie for, and then spending all this money on making, say, a movie or a record that’s got no substance to it and is all icing and no actual real thing to it. And then spend millions and millions and millions on promoting it, and ramming it down the public’s throat, and thinking that everyone can be bought. And really, they really end up with something like Mission Impossible 2 or The Matrix Reloaded. They really underestimate the large percentage of the public’s intelligence. And the public just vote every time with their wallet, and these people just end up screwed. Just because we’re bombarded with must go see the Matrix, must see Mission Impossible 2 or must buy this record by whatever, Nora Jones or whatever. And this gets back to what I was saying about my album, you have to kinda just be kinda fighting it, and go no. There’s so much money spent on these things now. The corporate world is genuinely more powerful. But all the more reason for there to be an underground, I think.
So you’ve produced a couple of groups in recent memory. You produced Haven. Do think you’ll be doing a lot more producing around, or The Healers is basically your main drive at the moment?
The Healers is my main thing. The thing with producing why I’ve turned down alot of production work because, I almost work harder when I produced other people, almost than myself, because I consider it a little bit rude to not put every single bit of your energy into someone elses album. So, there’s a lot of emotional investment. And if I’m going to put that much effort into it now a days, it should just be my own thing. So I’d be very surprised if I end up producing anybody in the near future. But I’ve enjoyed it so far. I think I’ve got a pretty good knack for it, you know. But no.
So, you’ve worked with a bunch of musicians, all the way from Beck to Bernard Sumner. Which one would you say would be the one that you’ve learned from the most, if this question could be asked properly…
I know it’s a difficult one…I think, well, from, I learned a lot from Matt Johnson from TheThe. I learned about self exploration and individuality. And I learned about discipline. And I learned a lot about being strong from Matt Johnson. And, Morrissey I learned about…I was very young with The Smiths, so you know, I wouldn’t know what to say what I learned from Morrissey. I’m sure I learned something but nothing much comes to mind. Yeah, I learned about dedication and passion from Morrissey. Passion goes a long way. He’s very good at what he does. Really brilliant, obviously. And from Bernard Sumner, I learned some really important things about friendship and good values like loyalty and tenacity. I think I learned more from Bernard Sumner than I learned from anybody else. Yeah, I learned how to chill out from Bernard Sumner.
Cool. I read a bunch of things that you said once that you could live in a studio, cause from what I read, you’re really a studio kind of guy, that you could work out there for like 12 hours a day and then just pull out a bed and be ok…
Oh yeah, much more longer than 12 hours.
Yeah?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah…18 hours.
So what do you get more, do you enjoy more being in a studio creating than live or…
Well, it’s an interesting period for me because I’ve just done this tour. And there’s a combination of, well, the time of when it happening in my life and my age, just happening now, and also the fact that I’m a singer now, that it’s really made me want to enjoy going out live much more than ever before. In the past, I was different from a lot of musicians in that what most musicians, rock musician do is, they get a band together with their friends for whatever a million reasons and then they get the songs together and everything. And on their way to getting to the fun bit, which is playing and touring and being on the road, they have to record these songs and they just hope they don’t get it wrong. They’re sorta like getting through the studio experience and try and make a record without fucking it up. Then they get to the fun bit. But for me the second stage, getting into the studio, was the fun bit.

Because I grew up with an absolute total obsession for vinyl 7″ singles. It just happened to be vinyl then, it would have been cd these days. But these songs, these radio singles, in my case it was people like TRex and David Bowie and Roxie Music and these 70′s kinda dudes. I would listened to these records when I was a kid and they were like mystical objects. And they would take me off to a place if it was it was a really great record, like Drive-In Saturday by David Bowie or something, or Metal Guru by TRex. They would take me off to this world that just like, not this different world to this, so it was like a transcended experience. And it was a real total mysterious place. And the process by which these things came to be, recording studios and musicians, and they got the headphones on, and then you can overdub, and put harmonies on, and more guitars, and this whole sorta process was absolutely wondrous for me and my imagination. And then when I got to actually be in a recording studio and I found that I was, I put so much thought into it, it was like my natural sorta place to be and I was not intimidated by it. It gave me a creative kick. That was it really. I’m done now, that will do me. Anytime I when I finished an album, the singer would’ve said to me, right, well tomorrow we start the new one, I would have jumped up and down for joy. So it took Morrissey and Matt Johnson to make me go on tour. I think the idea of The Smiths, the common idea, was that Johnny was the rock ‘n’ roller…that I would love hanging out and drinking Jack Daniels and being on the road and all this sorta stuff. Well in fact, Morrissey was much more into being in front of an audience than I was.

But, you know after 20 years of playing professionally, I got into this whole new thing about playing live. And ironically now I’m in the center singing. I really like the volume. Singers always complain about volume, but I really like it. And I like being surrounded by the energy of musicians. The audience I have, there’s a kind of underlining affection that I have for my audience. I think they know that I respect them. So it’s all very mutual, and all very nice and very right on. So, I love it, it’s great. So I don’t necessarily like the studio anymore that playing live anymore. There’s a thing that I do live that I really like. And I think that I’ve got what I do now that is just unique to me.
So, you play lots of guitars. I heard a myth around, is it true that you gave Noel Gallagher his first Les Paul? And which one would be your favorite guitar that you like to play?
I gave Noel Gallagher a guitar because he spent so long in between songs tuning up, that it was getting really boring watching him. And I said look, you gotta like switch your guitar. And he said to me, well that’s alright for you to say, you’ve got like 120 guitars. I let him borrow, kind of a permanent loan, a Les Paul. And he fell in love with it and I didn’t have the heart to take it back. But my favorite one is, I guess, a Gibson 355, 1959 355 that I used on a lot of Smiths records. Either that or a Rickenbacker 12 strings that I still play now, cause I kinda get something out of that people like.
Cool. But what is the main axe you use for live?
Gibson SG 1963
Cool. Right on. So what is the live show going to be like, I mean, cause a lot of people here are coming out really excited to see you, they want Johnny Marr in the flesh, but I mean maybe you’re going kick back on some of the old material from your previous bands…no?
No, I’m not into playing the old stuff because we feel like we’re trying to establish something new. At some point in the future I might get some, you know, crazy affection for a couple of songs and maybe dust them down. But right now, as always I feel like I’ve got really one eye on what I’m doing tomorrow, really. And I’ve always been that way.
Living in the moment…
That’s the hardest thing to do and that’s what I’m really trying to get out of.
So what’s ahead for Johnny Marr and The Healers in the near future, maybe a new record?
Yeah we’re going to do a new record in the summer and it’ll come out the start of next year. And then we’ll do the whole thing again, start touring again. Hopefully meet new people and have new experiences and get to some new places.
Cool. Well, Johnny, thank you very much for your time.
That’s absolutely fine.
It was really, really fun.
Great, ok.
Take care. Have a great show tonight.
Thanks very much.
Thanks.

tapesandthoughts